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stonedcamel
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|  | Our Buildings
« Thread Started on Nov 4, 2009, 12:28pm » | |
I imagine most of you have been or maybe still meet in a church house that is old, say from the 1950's or older, some maybe even have been in a building that is from the earlier 1900's. Think about the design of the auditorium of those building compared to a building built say in the last fifteen years.
Has the design of the building affected how we do things in a Sunday morning meeting or has the way we do things effected the way we design our buildings? Does form follow function?
Now think about the educational space of buildings from the eras I suggested.
If you looked at our buildings now compared to then would you say we place more emphasis on Christian education now or then?
Try not to think about the meetings like small groups that meet away from the church building.
And just for the fun of it how about kitchens now vs. then. What does the size and design of church kitchens say about the importance of meals and eating together then and now?
SC
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elderjohn
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #1 on Nov 4, 2009, 1:41pm » | |
From some of the really modern buildings I have visited, there seems to be an overly emphsized pointing to the stage as if an entertainment venue (lighting, large TV screens etc)
I see less emphasis on classrooms now then a generation ago. I use the word classroom because that is what they were then while today they are more meeting rooms like conference rooms in a corp.
Our kitchen is basically set up for eaters. By this I mean when we re-did it some years back we had in mind more dinners and fellowships then was the original design in 1955
John
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jdmcarthur
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #2 on Nov 4, 2009, 2:26pm » | |
Our building was built in the early 1960s. The ceiling is too low for a good use of power point so everyone can see. The foyer is not much more than a walk-through and we do not have nearly enough classrooms. To be fair, when the current building was built the church had long range plans to build upon where those needs would have been met. Our kitchen is too small but but the future plans call for conversion of the current worship area into a fellowship room and the beginnings of a kitchen (ie a sink) is just off the current worship area - the idea is that when the room is converted into fellowship that room would be the kitchen (although it is way too small).
The biggest problem is handicap access. Stairs going up at every door but the back door but that door goes to the basement (and there are two steps down) where you still have to go up stairs to get to the worship area. We have installed a chair lift from the basement to the main floor but we are in flat Illinois with plenty of ground - there is no reason why the whole building couldn't be all on one level.
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kerusso59
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« Reply #3 on Nov 4, 2009, 6:09pm » | |
Many newer buildings do not even have a communion table up front any more...often, the ushers bring it in from the back. Most of the new buildings (or new additions) I've been in lately have had at least 2 kitchens, and all of them have been short on usable classroom space. It was fairly common in the 50s and 60s that when a church built an addition, it was an education wing. Nowadays, it is for a multi-purpose center, meaning a gym that can be used for fellowship dinners.
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fess2us
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #4 on Nov 5, 2009, 10:41am » | |
I'd say buildings don't matter. It use to be the Center of the community was the "Church" but not anymore.
Also interesting is the idea now of "small Groups" yet not all groups need to do nor should do small groups. Seems to be more of a "white" thing http://www.outofur.com/archives/2009/10/are_small_group.html
Of course you could build a $130 Million building http://mondaymorninginsight.com/blog/pos....build_a_church/
There are usually 3Bs that people tend to focus on Buildings, Bodies, and Budgets.
The building I'm in - is less than 20yrs old. Expansion was about 12yrs ago to it. We have some room to grow but the focus isn't on our building. The people are the church.
The building can be a tool, and should be seen as such. The focus doesn't need to be on it. There was a time alot of the architecture and structures were more concerned on looks and style rather than just simple ministry. I think this is where some of our RM brethen in the non-instrumental movement got it right. They have simple buildings ... Send alot of funding for ministry .... Not saying there is a right or wrong way. Buildings are a great tool if used correctly and the focus is on the message of Jesus and not on the "structure." I've seen some Huge buildings and churches that utilize all their space all the time - and other places that only use their facilities once a week - and I'm thinking what a waste of resources.
Thoughts?
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elderjohn
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #5 on Nov 6, 2009, 8:00am » | |
There was a time when towns and cities were built around the local church. The steeple stood tall enough so that no matter where you were, you knew your relationship to the church. All churches had grave yards (cemetaries) and people passed their grave site every time they went to church, bringing the idea of a redeemer even closer. life centered around the local church.
Today the buildings in many cities look more like movie theaters or corporate headquarters and blend into the scenery almost invisibly. I also think a church says a lot about the peopel that worship there.
John
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dlcarrick
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #6 on Nov 6, 2009, 9:23am » | |
How, John? As in that they are about reaching everyone in the community for the cause of Christ, or as in are stuck in 1910 or 1970 or whatever, or as in they think the church means a physical, cold stone cathedral?
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elderjohn
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #7 on Nov 6, 2009, 9:38am » | |
How? I know it ios just a building and so is your home. So what do people see and think when they first walk in? that says a lot about us. Not the design or layout, which many of us had nothing to do with. But the appearence, the cleanliness, whats on the bulletin boards, whose greeting and ushering, is it user friendly or a nightmare to navigate.
I read a story once where a visiting preacher for a revival got lost in a building for 20 minutes before someone found him and directed him in the right direction. Are their clear signs to class areas, fellowship areas, worship areas etc. is the outside sign inviting or does it say this is a closed club? Buildings do say a lot
John
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daren
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #8 on Nov 6, 2009, 11:21am » | |
I think what John was getting at regarding church architecture is that it reflects what we as a culture is highest or most important. In the late 20th and early 21st centuries, American church architecture reflects that American corporate headquarters, or a "big-box" store design as the highest ideal in our culture. Reasons could be that such a building design is most pragmatic for the megachurch movement, or perhaps it's cheaper to build such a design.
I happen to find "stone cold cathedrals" to be much more conducive for me to reflect upon and worship God. Those old cathedrals of Europe and America were designed from the crypt to top of the spire with one singular intent: to cause a person who sees and enters it to be drawn to worship God. I must ask, Can the same be said of our contemporary church architecture? No; and now that the culture around is becoming more visual again, I suggest that we miss an opportunity to proclaim the gospel through yet another means: architecture.
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elderjohn
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #9 on Nov 6, 2009, 1:52pm » | |
The design of many of the Catholic churches of old was magnificent. the inside was in the shape of a cross, the altar always faced the east and the art work was awe inspiring. If anyone ever comes to NYC, you have got to stop into Saint Patricks Cathedral to see what I mean
John
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daren
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #10 on Nov 6, 2009, 5:14pm » | |
I did, John, and St. Patrick's is simply amazing! The next time I'm in NYC I want to visit the cathedral of St. John the Divine.
I read a book for a class (Church and the Arts) that was titled "Heaven in Stone and Glass: Experiencing the Spirituality of the Gothic Cathedrals" - I highly recommend it. Everything had a purpose. Your examples of the cruciform shape of the church and altar facing East: the cruciform cathedrals teach us that we must never forget what God (in love & as love) has done on our behalf and never fail to make that love the structure of our own lives; we face east toward the rising sun and the Risen Lord on Easter and upon his return. Very ancient things, these cathedrals, power point and praise bands are awkward and out of place inside them; but for me they are "thin places" where heaven and earth are just a little closer together.
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elderjohn
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #11 on Nov 7, 2009, 8:50am » | |
Been to Saint John the Divine as well. Another masterful work. Iread Heaven and stone in glass. It was eye opening to be sure. WHile we all know a building is just building, the ancients sure had a better grasp of function and dedication we seem to have lost. Or perhaps its just too expensive to build that way today. I can't imagine what the type of Cathedrals we mentioned above would cost to build today
John
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dlcarrick
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #12 on Nov 7, 2009, 1:12pm » | |
Perhaps if we would BE the church more fully, we would have an even greater effect/influence on our communities than the buildings we do or don't have.
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daren
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #13 on Nov 7, 2009, 11:45pm » | |
While I completely agree, dlcarrick, on being the church, it's just too hard! So we better build a building of some sort so we can tell folks to go listen to the preacher.
Ok, sorry for the sarcasm.
Since we are in a church culture that has dedicated buildings, i'd like to see more of them reflect the faith we profess. Maybe this would happen if Rick Warren would write a book titled, "The Purpose-Driven Church Architecture"!
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elderjohn
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| | Re: Our Buildings
« Reply #14 on Nov 9, 2009, 9:19am » | |
I do not think anyone would question that we are to be Christ like in all that we do. Does this negate buildings or building that bring glory to God rather than man?
David longed to build a place to worship God, Solomon was given that priveledge and God honored that building for centuries. Abram, Isaac and jacob just to name a few set up memorials to honor what God had done. The tabernacle was even built by the very design God gave Moses. so there is precedent for building to Gods glory and at the same time living to Gods glory with our lives
John
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