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Dec 26, 2009, 3:12pm

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Community of Faith Forum :: Ministry Matters :: Theology :: Is it Okay to lie?

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Poll

Poll Question: Is it okay to lie about being a Christian if others might be harmed by your confession?

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Yes it's okay

(0 votes, 0%)

only at times (explain)

(0 votes, 0%)

it's never okay to deny the Lord

(6 votes, 100%)

Poll Totals:
Total Votes: 6
Total Voters: 6

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Topic: Is it Okay to lie? (Read 289 times)

joshua
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #30 on Nov 5, 2009, 9:44pm »

Sorry im late to the party.
Just curious? if one denies the sacrifice, does the propitiatory benefit still exist?
Short answer: Not a chance in hell.

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief but is true faith something that takes a holiday when put under presure. And we cannot use Peter as an example. It was prior to ressurection and pentecost.

Under any covenant age atonement could not be procured without faith. Hebrews 11.

« Last Edit: Nov 5, 2009, 10:07pm by joshua »

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elderjohn
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #31 on Nov 6, 2009, 8:12am »

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

Probably from blaptô, "to injure," and phçmç, "speech,". "to blaspheme, rail at or revile," is used (a) in a general way, of any contumelious speech, reviling, calumniating, railing at, etc., as of those who railed at Christ, (b) of those who speak contemptuously of God or of sacred things

In the context given by Sterling, the miracle of Christ was attributed to Satan. This would certainly count as a railing or a contempt for what God had performed. In its clearest sense it is a lowering of God from His rightful place or elevating anyone else to that place either in speech or actions

I am not sure if denying Christ qualifies, but it certainly lowers him from a place he should be in the suppossed believers heart. it says if not Christ then who or what? The understand we get from the passage Sterling gave is a good one but not the only one. How did those in Jesus' day understand blasphemy? they accused Jesus of it by claiming to be God, Gods son and Messiah. again either lowering God or elevation some one or something else

So when we deny Christ do we not lower him from a place he should occupy in our lives? do we not suggest that there may be somthing or some one else who occupies that place instead? Just a thought.

But again the question I asked is this, If one denies the sacrifice does the propitatory benefit still exist?

John

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fess2us
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #32 on Nov 6, 2009, 11:32am »

Doesn't Hebrews say that it is like Crucifying Christ all over again?

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Sterling
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #33 on Nov 6, 2009, 12:46pm »

Hebrews 10

24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on
toward love and good deeds.

25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing,
but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth,
no sacrifice for sins is left,

27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy
on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished
who has trampled the Son of God under foot,
who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him,
and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

I've told people that skipping church services is wrong.
I've told people that 'making a habit of' skipping church services is worse.

Verse 26, in my opinion, shows the difference in failing and falling.
Deliberately...Keep On...Sinning...After Knowledge...No Sacrifice Left.

I do not believe skipping church, or for that matter most any other sin, is blasphemy of the Spirit.
If a person were to repent, and get back to church (or give up any sin),
then I believe the parable of the prodigal son becomes a reality.

I think many have forgotten that God is both a merciful father and a consuming fire.
When statements like...
...trampled the Son of God under foot,
...treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and
...insulted the Spirit of grace
are mentioned, intentional prolificacy (couldn't think of a synonym, sorry) in sin is a serious issue.

We who have been given the honor and gift of Romans 6,
must continually seek to honor the blood covenant we entered with God.
(buried with Christ through baptism)

Interesting discussion, in spite of the confusing Subject Title.

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elderjohn
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #34 on Nov 6, 2009, 1:56pm »

Confusing subject title? seems most have gotten the topic just fine, especially if you answered the poll question which is very much connected
Is it okay to lie about being a Christian if others might be harmed by your confession?

John

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joshua
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #35 on Nov 6, 2009, 7:53pm »

prolificacy ok now i have to go look that up.

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Sterling
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #36 on Nov 7, 2009, 12:38am »

Nov 6, 2009, 1:56pm, elderjohn wrote:

I apologize. I was attempting to make a joke. It must have fallen on its face.

What I meant was...

...confusing, in comparison to the subject matter we have been discussing in the thread.

Hope that makes my earlier statement clearer than mud.

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he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done,
but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth
and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

aquila
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #37 on Dec 12, 2009, 7:36pm »

I believe we should always acknowledge God and Jesus...no matter the circumstances...Our duty is to Christ....would He deny God just because some may be killed? NO.........

I believe that God can raise up my family at the ressurection....the ones who killed them would have the blood on their heads, not me for standing up for Christ...

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fess2us
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Re: Is it Okay to lie?
« Reply #38 on Dec 21, 2009, 10:58am »

Yeah, I think my whole thinking is the double trouble or the whole lying of the underground church ....

the persecution of Christians. I don't think it is denying Jesus as much as "lying" to protect others.

Such as smuggling Bibles. So do you have any Bibles in your luggage? Or do you know where those Christians are meeting? etc.

I know this puts it more in a grey matter than black and white ....though.

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